Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Freedom From Religion: The 1st Amendment

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

The following is an essay I did on the 1st Amendment for my government class. Some Christians say that it is wrong for us to involve religion with politics or government but I strongly disagree. We as Christians must be able to stand firm on the Word of God and from the Word of God stand firm on our political beliefs, enjoy:

Now those who have had any kind of interest in the First Amendment to the Constitution know that in my title there is something wrong. You’d be very correct. The actual amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” Now all I would like to focus on today is the first sixteen words of this amendment, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof.” I underlined the word “of” because that is a word that I believe makes a big difference in the meaning of this amendment. It is from this amendment that we get what are called the “Establishment Clause” and the “Free-exercise Clause”. Meaning government will not establish any national “church” or “religion” and the American people have the freedom to worship how they want as long as it remains legal. The reason I put the word “from” in my title was because that is the way the government and the American people as of late have interpreted this amendment that we are to have a freedom “from” religion not “of” religion. In this essay I hope not only to state what I believe but to factually prove that we have misinterpreted the first sixteen words of the First Amendment since 1947.

What happened in 1947? In 1947 was when the phrase “separation of Church and State” was reborn. In this case Emerson v. Board of Education, the plaintiff was bringing charges against a school board in New Jersey about kids going to a Catholic school and getting public transportation. A New Jersey court ruled in favor of Emerson but the Supreme Court ruled against him citing that it was not a violation against the 1st Amendment because it was for the education of kids. This mindset of “a wall of separation of church and state” came from an 1802 letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. The Danbury Baptists were a group of Baptists churches in Danbury, CT and were worried that at some point in time a “national” denomination would be brought forth. In this point and time in the early 1800’s the Baptist denomination was in the minority and was in ways persecuted by the other churches. These particular Baptists in Danbury took action and wrote a letter the highest man in the land, President Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson reassured them that under the First Amendment they had “a wall of separation between Church and State”. This personal letter to the Baptists of Danbury, CT that had been virtually forgotten until 1947 has brought about a nation that actually thinks that the words “separation of church and state” are in the First Amendment and that we are to be free “from” religion.

In 1962 the issue of school prayer came into being with the court case Engal v. Vitale. In this case the court ruled that any faculty and student in the school could pray to whom they wish but they could not lead anyone in prayer in a public school setting. The court determined it unconstitutional for schools to have an “official prayer”. The following was an example of a prayer from the New York Board of Regents that was ruled unconstitutional, “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country”. Regarding this particular prayer the court stated, “The petitioners contend, among other things, that the state laws requiring or permitting use of the Regents' prayer must be struck down as a violation of the Establishment Clause because that prayer was composed by governmental officials as a part of a governmental program to further religious beliefs. For this reason, petitioners argue, the State's use of the Regents' prayer in its public school system breaches the constitutional wall of separation between Church and State.* We agree with that contention, since we think that the constitutional prohibition against laws respecting an establishment of religion must at least mean that, in this country, it is no part of the business of government to compose official prayers for any group of the American people to recite as a part of a religious program carried on by government. (*emphasis mine). Right there that statement that this prayer “breaches the constitutional wall of separation of church and state” is completely false because “a wall of separation of church and state” is not constitutional, it can’t be found anywhere in the constitution. This was the first time that the court ruled upon its own thoughts and opinions and looked for no precedents on this case, can you name another time in American history when the Courts took the words of one forefather from a private personal letter to a Baptist association? They made a precedent. From this came what we call the Lemon Test. Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971) the Court gave these criteria’s for establishment clause cases, 1) the law must have been adopted with a secular or non-religious, 2. The law’s primary effect must be neutral toward religion and not advance nor inhibit it, and 3. The law must not foster an excessive entanglement of government and religion. This is now the precedent for cases regarding the establishment clause. What precedent did our forefathers have regarding the First Amendment? Our forefathers were men that dedicated their every being to this country and they did not do anything half heartedly, including the Bill of Rights.

Our forefathers came to this land to free themselves from the tyranny of the King of England and the oppressive Anglican Church. In England they had a “national church” or denomination and that is how our great nation got started. We have the Puritans who wanted to purify the Church of England and the Separatists who wanted nothing to do with the church. These were the two main groups that made up what we know of as the pilgrims. Now these men and women came here for no other reason than freedom to worship God as they felt the Bible instructed them too not the King. These were Christian men and women who wanted to start a Christian land. One of the great forefathers Patrick Henry said, “It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!” This country was founded for no other reason than to worship Jesus Christ. The second President of the United States, John Adams, said the following about the constitution, Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” The writers of the constitution did not write it to govern a country of God- hating idiots but God fearing men and women that would raise their children according to those very standards! George Washington said while talking to the Delaware Indians chief regarding putting the Indian kids in the school system, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.” The most important thing to Washington in the teaching of the Delaware Indian children was that they would learn the religion of Jesus Christ! Our forefathers set precedents to be followed and we have disgraced them by going with tolerance over truth and we are simply destroying America generation by generation. Now obviously not all the founding fathers were Christian. Of course you had the atheist in James Madison, the agnostic in Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin but even these men who are touted to be strong institutors of “separation of church and state” were not against a Christian government. Yes they did not want the church to become equal and oppressive like in England but with Christian teaching comes Christian morals, something we largely lack today.

Our society has been hurt by the mindset of being free “from” religion. The first Amendment to the Constitution was drafted five times before the final copy and in each one the word “religion” is not there but “denomination”. When the Bill of Rights was being written the words “religion” and “denomination” went hand in hand. It was largely assumed by our forefathers that we would remain a Christian nation and not stray so far from the Bible and its teachings. Now though we are stuck in a society and a generation that strives on rebellion and immorality. A society hooked on things, a society that wants to eat and not work. A society that believes we are to be free from religion and God. As citizens it is our obligation and our duty to our government to return to the mindset and the intentions of our forefathers. I believe John Adams said it best, “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” It’s up to us whether or not America commits suicide on our watch, let’s not let that happen.

Big Jimmy

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

how does one become a christian? I've heard the cliche that one must ask Him into your heart. Obviously it takes more than that, doesn't it? You must have to mean it, right? So i guess what I'm really asking is how does one mean it?

J.R. MacDonald said...

wow, great question. One "means it" by doing that which the Bible commands them to do. The Word says in Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them or by the way they behave you will know that they are saved. Only oneself can truly know if they are saved.

Acts 16:30 says "......what must I do to be saved?" The response by Paul the apostle was Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
What does in mean to believe? From the dictionary "believe" means "to have confidence or faith in the truth of". In Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Faith as explained in Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
So to become a child of God (to be saved) you must have faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God. You need to believe that He came down to earth through a virgin birth and that Christ was 100% God and 100% man ant that Christ lived a sinless life and that He died on the cross for your sins and that He rose again three days later a bodily resurrection and that he will come again someday.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

You see ever since the first sin in the garden of Eden man has been separated from God because of our imperfection and sinfullness.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


To receive Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour you simply need to accept His gift through prayer. Admit to Him that your are a sinner and totally incapable of reaching heaven on your own and that you need a Saviour to redeem your life. Tell the Lord that you believe that He came to die for your sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day and that you have faith in Christ for His healing power upon your life.

Once someone is saved nothing can separate them from God's hands Paul tells us in Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

J.R. MacDonald said...

Let me know if this wasn't really the answer you were looking for.

Anonymous said...

Yes, wonderful!!! That does help a lot. Much appreciated! But, I’ve realized now that I’m confused on another topic. I believe I meant to ask this as well previously, but I didn’t understand what to ask until now. This may sound rather rambled, but I hope you understand my point.

How does one get to the point where they want to become a Christian? That point where they truly know Christianity is the only correct choice? Is it really through looking at all other possibilities? Learning them, realizing that they are fallacious, and then turning to the one logical choice (Christianity). That seems to be the way I’ve seen it done (at least that’s what people
claim they do), but it seems impractical. The amount of time and labor to gain that unprejudiced understanding would be phenomenal, I imagine, just to gain a shallow understanding of such (there is a seemingly infinite amount of philosophies and religions.). And then, afterwards, researching more to truly know that Christianity is the way to go. The unrealistic amount of work this would take leads me to the conclusion that there must be something I’m missing; some fundamental, intrinsic, element that makes this deep erudition unnecessary. I can’t imagine that every alleged Christian I’ve known (I say “alleged” because they could be false Christians/hypocrites) has gone through this learning. I also can’t imagine that I could go through all this learning and then be able to conclude anything. What I mean is that I can’t imagine that after this deep erudition I wouldn’t just get deeper and deeper and, inevitably, make it impossible to conclude anything. I strongly believe that I would then ask the question: “Even though I’ve learned all of this, how do I truly know that what I think I understand isn’t some grand conspiracy.” Therefore, I’d be forced to learn even more. Because if your faith/reason for believing in God/reason for becoming a Christian rests on the understanding, through this deep erudition, that everything else (that is, everything not Christianity) is wrong than one would have to be 100% sure that he was correct. How can one possibly make this conclusion? If this faith lies in the understanding that everything else it false, how can one conclude, as incredulous as this may sound, that everything they know isn’t some grand conspiracy? As I said, I realize that that may sound rather stupid. But one must be able to make that conclusion if this “understanding that everything else is wrong” is the reason for believing/having faith in Christianity. So I feel that this “deep understanding of everything else” must not be necessary because it would be endless and circular (that is to say, make me reason in circles). So I feel that there must be something else, maybe.

I pray (actually…why would I pray) that you have an answer to this rambled inquiry of mine. But, if you do not, I hope that will not just B.S me some confusing answer. Because if you do, not to sound like a drama-queen or anything, but I will be doomed and doomed again and will wind up hopeless this way.

-p.s. I apologize for the ridiculous length of this question. I’d intended it to be a simple, brief inquiry but this is as short as I felt I could make it. Have fun. Also, thank you for your time.

Anonymous said...

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Christianity is the most reasonable worldview in existence. Obviously the debate about this has thousands of facets, and has been going on for many years between many intelligent people. I believe your question is basically, how can we be sure we are correct? In all reality we can't. Reason can only take you so far.
This is true for any belief system, not just Christianity. It is always possible that a "grand conspiracy" exists. Pure, sheer reason makes everything unprovable. How do you know the earth is round? How do you know you exist? How do you know that water is composed of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen? Without a "blind" belief in something, nothing is real.

Faith without reason is prejudiced bigotry, reason without faith is unusable thought. Reason and Faith are symbionts.

(Feel free to ask more questions, or to denounce my answer as unsuitable or insufficient.)

J.R. MacDonald said...

Good answer KC, I totally agree. I think Anonymous you may just simply have "belief" and "faith" mixed up or mixed together. Faith needs no absolute evidence because its the "evidence of things NOT seen".

As KC said logically Christianity is better than all other views and or religions. It makes more sense and has proven itself over and over. Even those who deny the scriptures as the word of God must admit that they hold historical value at least. The OT (old testament) can be seen almost as a perfect historical account of how Israel came to be a nation and the NT (new testament) can be seen as almost a perfect historical walk thru of both Christ and the early Christian Church. Nobody can deny this. Unlike the Koran, Book of Morman, etc. which have many holes in them that historically don't match up the Bible can be trusted and has proved itself over time to be true.
As you probably already know the Bible contains thousands of prophecy. Most in the OT prophecy about Christ and many in the NT prophecy about the end of the world and the second coming of Christ, those obviously haven't been fulfilled. Approximately 2000 of the 2500 prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled, to the very word. Now looking at the OT and the NT as historical documents that are accurate accounts which they undoubtedly are, non-Christians and Christians alike can agree on that. Allow me to direct you to the following website, it will explain it a lot better than I can:

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml

Let me know if for whatever reason the link doesn't work. To me the fulfilled prophecies is proof enough, no other religion can claim the accuracy the Bible has.

Anonymous said...

Very interesting! Both those answers are sufficient and enlightening! So, basically, researching (reason) takes you only so far and then you must have “faith”. This “faith” concept baffles me a tad-bit though. Can you elaborate further on that subject? It seems to me that “faith” is tantamount to reason. It seems to be just another level of reason; like concluding that Christianity must be the correct choice because it does, indeed, sustain more proof. So, please, elaborate further on what “faith” is.

J.R. MacDonald said...

Your statement, "So, basically, researching (reason) takes you only so far and then you must have “faith”", is right on the money. Reason can you take you to that point but then you have to take unreasoned proof and put your full loyalty into it. According to Webster's dictionary a definition for the word faith can be, "firm belief in something for which there is no proof".
For example I can never prove to you or anyone else on an intellectual level that God exists. I can't set God in front of you and say, "heres God". So I have faith that God exists and that I have seen Him work both in my life and others lives BUT I can't prove to anyone else He exists. Another example is evolutionists. They will claim that evolution is totally off of reason and requires NO faith. I disagree. Some evolutionist believe that the world was started by cells or organisms basically piggybacking on crystals, they have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of this but yet they believe it, through faith, not reason.

Hope I answered your question. Let me know if i didn't.

Also just an off the topic question for you, how did you come to find this site?

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Anonymous said...

Ah, okay! That’s definitely logical - excellent point about the evolutionists, by the way. So I understand that faith and reason are, indeed, symbionts (as King Crusader labeled them). So my next question is, going back to some of my original inquiries, what must one know/understand to believe in Christianity? I don’t mean to ask what they must know to become a Christian or “accept Jesus into your heart” (as we’ve already covered), but what must one have researched and comprehended to be able to deduce that Christianity is the most rational choice; that all the other choices are fallacious/incorrect? This, I imagine, requires a specific answer (e.g. specific book titles, websites, and other empirical evidence). I’d imagine that one must still have to do a lot of research since his choice is the combination of faith and reason. Obviously, one’s reason has to be based on evidence and the evidence must be copious because it must outweigh the alternative choices (and then one has faith in the fact that the majority of evidence points toward Christianity, thus being able to conclude). So I suppose this is a rather personal question. What is it you know that lets you believe in Christianity? What empirical evidence have you discovered (you’ve already mentioned the prophecies) that lets you chose ardently and resolutely?

And now I’ll ask a second question – and this may seem motley and convoluted but bear with me. I don’t know if this is a moot question, but I’ll ask anyway. The inquiry I just made presupposes that one needs the majority of evidence to point them in one direction (and then faith comes into play), but is this necessary? I here cliché stories about children, normally approximately seven years old, becoming Christians. I’ve heard pastors say this; that they have been Christians since they were these young ages. How is this possible? Obviously, unless they all just happened to be prodigies with inherent knowledge, they were ignorant. So, one, either they are lying, two, are still ignorant and don’t understand that they were not then a Christian, or three, there is some intrinsic understanding that one may obtain that makes this erudition unnecessary (I was alluding to this point a while ago). I can’t imagine the answer is option three. But, if it is, what understanding could one obtain that would make all this researching unnecessary? Now that I think about it, maybe option three is the most plausible. In the scenario of someone completely isolated from the rest of the world, that wouldn’t be able to research anything, he must still be able to become a Christian, I imagine. He must just innately understand. Furthering the same point and deviating from the hypothetical, I’ve heard that there were times in history when science did not, in any way, point toward Christianity; that people just had to have faith. So, do your best at answering that if you will.

-p.s I discovered this blog indirectly. I was given the address to the Crusader Empire blog a while ago by some more politically inclined individuals. I browsed the blog and the links; posting nothing. Didache intrigued me the most because of its esoteric title. A long while later I had these questions that alleged Christians failed to answer. I recalled that Didache directly mentioned that they were Christian (and I could presume that they were very opinionated and, possibly, educated). So, I just decided to give it a try. It was fortuitous, I suppose.

J.R. MacDonald said...

The thing is anonymous that Christianity is not logical. Sure there are some logical things and logically it makes more sense than most religions or faiths but you can't become a Christian through logic. Like i've said before logic can only take you so far. You asked the question how do young children become saved? well, i myself was saved at a very young age. The Bible actually says that children are the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven and in order to enter into Heaven we as adults need to humble ourselves down to "their level". Read this: Matthew 18:1-4 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
If we went by pure reason and knowledge then Christianity would make no sense, hence by faith are we saved and we need to have child like faith.
Just as the older we get the harder it became to believe in Santa well the older we get and the more vain philosophies we study the harder it becomes to believe in Jesus because we sometimes let pure reason take over faith.

Anonymous said...

"What is it you know that lets you believe in Christianity? What empirical evidence have you discovered (you’ve already mentioned the prophecies) that lets you chose ardently and resolutely?"

Your questions are very general, and that makes them quite difficult to answer. However their is a great deal of empirical evidence on all fronts. Science, history, geography, practicality, I could list many examples, but I am unable to fully ascertain which you need.

One book that you must read to fully understand Christianity is, obviously the Bible. Read that, then read other materials and see if the Bible is backed up.

(Answer this more specifically, and I will do my best to procure a wealth of information for you.)

"But, if it is, what understanding could one obtain that would make all this researching unnecessary?"

I don't believe big jimmy was actually trying to say Christianity mskes no sense. It makes a great deal of sense, as I said before, NO belief is complete without faith. Not even belief in your own existence.

Let's use that example. You can look around you, feel, think, use your emotions, interact with others, and logically deduce that you exist. But you must have faith that you do to some extent, or you might be some inorganic thought process of an advanced computer. This is possible, but through "faith" you believe that you exist.

But there is another scenario. What if you just automatically, without questioning, as the vast majority of people do, that you exist. This innate understanding is no less true, correct?

But perhaps your question was how do we gain this innate understanding that Christianity is correct. How did the ignorant man know that he existed? All I can say is that it was created in him. He knew because Someone put that knowledge there. God puts the same knowledge that he exists within every one of us. Can we deny it to suit our own pleasures? Yes, He allows that. He allows free will. With enough questioning, the innate knowledge can be hidden with very little possibility of being found. Sorry to reiterate, but again, reason can bring us back to the point where we just need that little bit of faith to realize that Christianity is true.

Always feel free to elaborate or inform us that we answered insufficiently. Thank you for the logical and amicable discussion. We are quite edified, and desire that you feel the same.

Anonymous said...

Well, you answered some of my questions. I appreciate that! I believe I must have convoluded my inquiry. You didn't answer all the questions. Sorry, for convoluding it by making it so wordy and repetative. What I was trying to ask previously is a specific and personal question (to each of you).

What specific information led you to choosing Christianity? I'm basically asking for specific references and advice. I want to know what information you know that lets you not believe in other ideas/religions so confidently. I imagine you must be able to recomend me books/videos to read/watch that helped you. That would be great help. And, if you want to, just straight tell me information/evidence.

J.R. MacDonald said...

I in all honesty never had to go through "material", books (other than the bible) to know that I needed to place my faith in Jesus Christ. To be honest I cannot pin point the day, time, or month well I truly accepted Christ into my heart. I know that when I was a young child I professed Christ as my savior but I didn't truly know how to follow Him. I do believe I was saved because I had faith in Christ and I fully believed the gospel but I was what one may call a "baby Christian". Now when the middle school years came around I believe I put on two faces as many kids do. You have the Church face and the out of Church face. Now I was in no way a "wild child" or "rebellious" and some may say that I was actually quite good comparably speaking but I know that I did not do that which the Lord commanded us to do in His word which is to forsake our own flesh and follow Him. It was during those times that when I would hang out with non-Christians they probably didn't really know I was a Christian unless they asked me and even then my walk and talk didn't fall in line. It was between the summer of 9th and 10th grade where I really got serious about the Word and my faith in Christ. Now I never had to have Christianity proved to me, I've just always known it was correct and right even in the times i was embarrassed to be a Christian I knew that the Word was truth and that Christ was the only way to heaven. Since that summer that I really got down to business with the Word I now have a much broader knowledge of other religions but I don't study them to see if they are better than or make more sense than Christianity but I study them so I can speak about them without being totally ignorant like a lot of Christians. Now in my studies even though I don't look for it I haven't found a better faith than Christianity. Christianity has no holes as with other religions there are huge holes. Whether its with the people who wrote their "holy books" or their different books don't agree with each other, or they say they teach peace but really hate. Christianity unlike those religions is whole.

I hope I answered your question. You may not like my answer as far as reasoning and logic go b/c for me to become saved I just didn't need to know or study other things. God showed me the way without me having to study other "ways". My advice to you though would be to read and study the Bible itself. I can't stress that enough. For now forget about the other books/videos just read the Word and the Lord will speak to you b/c it is His literal and living Word.

Anonymous said...

That's very interesting and in no way the answer I expected. I have to say that it sounds
ridiculous but, then again, I'm the one who's ignorant about Christianity. But I don't completely understand how it's possible for you to have become a Christian when you did.

You said you became a Christian before you researched the "material". So, basically, you became a Christian while you were still ignorant. Now, it makes sense that you could become a Christian while being ignorant only if Christianity was, indeed, true. But how could you have known you aren't delusional? And how did you know that you weren't choosing what you wanted to be the truth?

Anonymous said...

Also, I forgot to mention. You recommended me reading the Bible rather than anything else. I don't understand how this could help me. Obviously, I lack the reason to believe the Bible (as you probably presume). So I wouldn't believe what I read enough to really get anything out of it. But, I suppose, that's not your point. You said read the Bible and let "God speak to you". I don't believe this is possible for me, because, as King Crusader tells me, it is possible for one to deny this "inherence". So, if that "self-dellusion" is possible, then I've surely dellusioned myself. So unless God's "speaking to me" is totally undeniable (like an angel before me) then I will surely "deny" it.

Besides, I'm a pretty open person. And I've read the some of the Bible before. Can't say that it did anything for me - even though I would have been glad if "God talked/communicated to/with me".

So, I have to admit, some of these answers sound pretty fucking stupid right now.

J.R. MacDonald said...

First off, I'm going to ask you to keep it clean on our site. You do not have the right to swear on our site and I as an administrator will be forced to delete comments or remove words from comments in which you use distasteful and inappropriate language. thankyou.

Second, you can not become a Christian without reading the Bible. Your trying to become saved through pure reason and logic and that does not work. You've said that you do believe Christianity is the most logical faith but yet you won't read the book its built upon??? Thats pure stupidity and theres no other way to put it. If you want to truly know what Christianity is about stop being ignorant yourself and read the Bible. Thats the best way to know about it. You don't even have to read about it as if its God's Word but simply to just find out more about Christianity.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Anonymous you asked in your first or second comment how you have faith, if you read and hear the Word of God which is the Bible.

Anonymous said...

I apologize for the swearing!!! Very Sorry! Very good point about reading the Bible also. But I'd like to clear a few things up first.

Firstly, I don't think I said that I thought Christianity is the most logical choice. If I did say that than disregard it because I don't believe that (at least not at this point).

And secondly, I don't recall saying that I'm trying to become a Christian. I'm really just trying to figure out what it's about without having to read an extremely large book.

So, clearing that up, I still have a question that went unanswered. How did you know when you were a child (when you were still ignorant) that you weren't dilusional when you made your "commitment to Christ"?

J.R. MacDonald said...

I accept your apology and hold nothing against you just try to keep it clean in the future. Well, unfortunately the Bible is a pretty large book but if you were to read approx. 3-4 chapters a day (which would take approx. 15-20 min) you could read it in a year. Not bad, eh?
But I understand your feeling so I will recommend a book to you (besides the Bible, which is undoubtedly my first recommendation). The book is entiled, "What's so great about Christianity" by the author Dinesh 'd Sousa. Now I unfortunately have not read this book yet (haven't had the time lately, I have read a biography he did on Ronald Reagan which was quite good) but I did hear the author speak on the book roughly a month ago and it sounds great for what kind of thing your talking about. How Dinesh described it was that he would basically compare Christianity against other religions and show why Christianity is better. You can find it at any major bookstore but here it is on amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Great-About-Christianity/dp/1596985178/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210556463&sr=1-1

Heres an intro to the book:
Is Christianity obsolete? Can an intelligent, educated person really believe the Bible? Or do the atheists have it right? Has Christianity been disproven by science, debunked as a force for good, and discredited as a guide to morality?

Bestselling author Dinesh D'Souza (What's So Great About America) looks at Christianity with a questioning eye, but treats atheists with equal skepticism. The result is a book that will challenge the assumptions of both believers and doubters and affirm that there really is, indeed, something great about Christianity. D'Souza reveals:

*Why Christianity explains what modern science tells us about the universe and our origins--that matter was created out of nothing, that light preceded the sun--better than atheism does
*How Christianity created the framework for modern science, so that Christianity and science are not irreconcilable, but science and atheism might be
*Why the alleged sins of Christianity--the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Galileo affair ("an atheist's fable")--are vastly overblown
*Why atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest mass murders of history
*Why evolution does not threaten Christian belief, but actually supports the "argument from design"
*Why atheists fear the Big Bang theory and the "anthropic principle" of the universe, which are keystones of modern astronomy and physics
*How Christianity explains consciousness and free will, which atheists have to deny
*Why ultimately you can't have Western civilization--and all we value from it--without the Christianity that gave it birth.

Provocative, enlightening, a twenty-first-century successor to C. S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, Dinesh D'Souza's What's So Great About Christianity is the perfect book for the seeker, the skeptic, and the believer who wants to defend his faith.


Now to answer your question about how did I know I wasn't delusional as a Child making a commitment about Christ. Well I wasn't delusional b/c that means I would have been in a "whack" state of mind (and i was a pretty normal child) but could I have been ignorant. Sure. But does that mean I didn't make a sure faith choice in Jesus Christ? Just b/c I didn't have the correct education on other religions doesn't mean that I can't become a Christian, plus becoming a Christian has nothing to do with the things we study or do, its up to Gods work in our hearts.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

J.R. MacDonald said...

Remember, knowledge does not gain you salvation.